Worth Reading.

I read this on Mike's profile (http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=logo#/note.php?note_id=86434649709&ref=nf). Mike reposted it from Fariss' profile...and I am passing it along to you (with some spelling corrections), because it is worth reading, and more than worthy of being read, it is worth being acted on. So read on...

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Fariss' opening statement:

As of late my good friends Jonathan and Britt have been noticing more and more of the immodesty this culture has grown into a habit of accepting.

Our notes are aimed at trying to start change. so i encourage you to come along side us and write, and promote change in your area whether it be writing your own note/blog or copying and pasting ours.
Attention craving, conformitism, and immodesty are crippling our society, our churches, and our schools from behind and we don't even notice it. so please be the change.



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Jonathan's Note:

Ah, I'm not really sure how to start this.

I just want to thank all the female friends of mine for being modest.

I went bowling the other night, with a bunch of friends, and it was just so...man, there were a lot of girls who were not dressed modestly, let's just say. I felt bad for them, it was weird. I don't understand why girls dress like that. It's like, why demean yourself, just to get attention from guys who don't value YOU. That only attracts guys who only care about your body. And that's not someone you want to spend the rest of your life with...immature, selfish, and perverted.

So, my point.


Thank you ladies, for being modest. Because, it's hard for guys as it is, not to be looking at ladies like that. So when girls dress like that it just makes it harder. That is NO excuse though, guys make their own decisions, and you aren't responsible for that.

Be proud about who you are. Because you are a loved creation of the Most High. So don't feel like guys won't notice you if you don't wear less.

GAH! ok, ha, side note. Whoever came up with the saying "less is more" should....I don't even know, But it has messed a lot of brains up, and that's NOT cool.

anyway.

Yes, so guys WILL notice you. Ha, ok, little secret of the male mind. Guys like a challenge, so if you're dressed modestly, and act mature, and aren't totally open about EVERYTHING, they notice that. Maybe it seems like a short term loss, and long term gain. But don't worry about such things. Be who you are, and you will be amazed.

Also, I want to apologize for the perverted ways of males. I really do feel bad for girls a lot of the time. You girls have so much pressure on you to "look your best" and to be current and fashionable. Not to mention school, and all the stuff you have to deal with there. It's not cool that guys use ladies as eye candy.

Mmmm, you my friends know my thoughts about that, if not, you don't know me all that well.

I am for love...but one of the few things I hate, is how guys use girls for eye candy.

But my main point of this note, was to say thank you for being modest. So, thank you. Keep doing so, and be proud about it.



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Britt's note:


Goody goody, now its time to write about Guys and modesty.

In our culture today, Just as Girls feel that the best way to fit in is to look a certain way, Guys feel that that the best way to fit in is to grab attention and beat other Guys down.

if you haven't notcied already most guys tend to CRAVE ATTENTION!

Guys Crave the validation that comes from getting attention.. it can be negative attention, or it can be positive attention done with the wrong motivations. That's why you sometimes have the guy at youth group that will never stop talking and being annoying, and you can have the goody goody hypocrite that volunteers for every youth event because he gets kudos for it. Both guys are seeking validation from the attention these actions produce.

WHEN GUYS CRAVE ATTENTION IT BREEDS IMMODESTY

Guys don't have to wear nothing to be immodest. A guy can be immodest by the way he conducts himself, the way he talks, what he talks about, what activities he participates in, his motivation for doing things and so on.

I was talking to a middle school boy about 3 years younger then me and i was talking to him about dating (sidenote: I am very much against dating before the age of 18, its pointless until your actually ready to get married) he was in a relationship and i asked him why he was dating this girl even though they were only in middle school. he said "Because everyone i know is doing it, and she's hot, so it makes all the other guys jealous and it just feels good to have the ATTENTION because she is so popular and hot", i asked him if really did like her, and after some thought he said "No but the attention is really nice".
GAHH! that is disturbing! The new generation of men are becoming pathetic wimps that are desperate for attention! its not wonder we are having so many moral failures in men now days!

Craving Attention breeds immodesty

Please o please guys, our culture is in a place that we need Guys to step up and be leaders. The Bible has said that just as the men of the church fall, the est of the church will fall also. Men/Guys that crave attention and are immodest will NEVER be able to lead.
strive to redefine what the media says about Men being wimps that are dependent on sexual desires and attention, Redefine how we lead, Redefine the norms, Redefine "Love", Redefine on fire for Jesus, Redefine Passion, Redefine our schools, Redefine Christianity

Redefine our Culture


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Fariss' addition:

It's very obvious at this point in time the way our world is going is down hill... When I look around I'll tell you what I see in a list:

1. Pre-marital Sex as something OK, something that "everyone is doing" (a lie)

2. Sexual confusion--- you are who God made you to be, not who you feel you should be.

3. Drugs & Alcohol...... and with them I hear all the lies being put in peoples heads such as
---------->They Don't Hurt Me
----------->I'm not addicted and I can't be...
------------>I do it because I'm bored
------------->I do it because It feels like I won't gain the attention of the world otherwise.

4. Lies... I see people believing the lie that "they should be satisfied on this earth" when the only true satisfaction can come from a loving God.

I'm here to tell you that there is HOPE... there is LOVE... but they can only come in their true from a loving and mercyful God.


I'm tired of sitting down and watching friends and acquaintances get sucked into their worldly desires...
I know that God is for lack of words to describe him, The Best Thing That Has Ever Happened To Me.

I've seen the above and have practiced lust and sin as a habit... It's the biggest part of my testimony I'm ashamed of. It's sick, repulsive, disgusting and LITERALLY POISON (not joking) to dwell upon.

I hope this encourages you all. I pray you all come to a point in your relationship with Christ that you come to realize what is of God and what is not. I wish for every one of you who read this note to grow exponentially in your love with God.

Step out...... Be a REBEL!....... Everyone is conforming and instead of the unbeliever being the rebel, they have be come the norm.
We need to be rebels in our communities reading our Bibles, Spreading God's Love, Spreading the Gospel and the reason for the HOPE that is in us.

God Bless,
Fariss

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I can't add too much more.

Jesus said "go and sin no more...I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."

Our actions will speak volumes more than the words in this note ever will. I don't want to have passed along a note that "is encouraging" to make us "feel better;" I want to influence actions: godly, righteous, holy zeal for the Love and Truth that God is and stands for. That means that you and I need to be filled with the Spirit of God, renewed in our minds to have the mind of Christ, and to have put off the old man with his deeds, and put on the new man. Action. Faith is all fine and well, but without obedient action, it is worse than useless, and gives a reason for unbelievers to despise and blaspheme the God they so desperately need.

Modesty (From a Woman's Perspective)

I was discussing the topic of modesty with some of my friends a while ago, and then just recently it resurfaced, and I believe that their perspective is valuable, so I have attempted to refine the ideas expressed (instant messenger conversations are kind of hard to work with) – and here they are.

Andrew: Andrew Powers (me)
Sarah: Sarah Ganzhorn
Hannah: Hannah Ganzhorn
Nalani: Nalani Brisco
Alicia: Alicia Powers

Sarah: Have you ever noticed that articles talking about modesty are normally focused on women being modest and most of the time don't even mention the fact that men also should be modest?

Andrew: Sometimes it bothers me...but I think it's probably because guys think about it more.

What were your thoughts on the "modesty for guys" topic?

Sarah: Men may be visually oriented... but girls also are – maybe not to such an extent but it is still there, and it still causes problems.

Andrew: So what ways should men be modest?

Sarah: I don't want to get on a soapbox or anything but I think that men can be modest in pretty much all the same ways women should be. For example, men are always saying that when women wear really tight pants it causes them problems – well, men wearing rather tight pants cause women to have problems as well.

Nalani: A guy can be immodest by being vulgar (either in his self-representation or his speech [like if he swears a lot or makes a lot of sexual innuendos (being pervy!)])....ummm....hmmm....being arrogant and proud to a fault...

Hannah: In speech, behavior, and appearance…specifically, immodesty in speech and behavior pretty much equals flirting, which can include ridiculously outrageous compliments, being smart or witty with the sole intent of attracting, showing off strength, etc.

Modesty of dress is not using one's body to attract, modest clothing would not be too loose (as in descending pants), too tight (as in bicycling tights), or too skimpy.

Alicia: I think the modesty for guys probably comes in character. Arrogant and proud or humble.

Andrew: To me it seems that a lot of times immodesty in a guy exhibits itself in different forms than girls (where clothing is the major issue)...with guys, immodesty can be not in the clothes so much as in, say, the muscular body, or the fast/loud car, etc.

Sarah: Mmm, yes that’s true, also, girls' immodesty is not limited to clothes – she can dress modestly and not behave modestly.

Andrew: Right. So what is modesty, then?

Nalani: Well, there's modesty as being humble, and then there's physical modesty--wearing clothes that aren't terribly revealing

Sarah: The definition for modest would be the opposite of immodest, and my opinion of immodest would be intentionally attracting the attention of the opposite gender in a way that would cause them to lust, etc.

Basically, anything that is immodest for a girl, the male version of it is also immodest. So, just like girls being immodest because they are wearing really tight pants, it is the same with guys wearing really tight pants.

Hannah: Immodesty is dressing or behaving in a way that encourages impure thoughts or actions….modesty is dressing and behaving in a way that is above reproach.

Andrew: Ok....so immodest actions for a girl can be flirting, acting provocatively (body postures, shoe choice, etc.), etc......so what do guys do (or wear, or say) etc., that fits into the "immodest" category?

Nalani: It kind of depends on what you think of as indecent. I'm not too fond of the way baggy pants some guys wear... and lots of older folks don't appreciate all of the holes in pants (or other clothing) that reveal all that skin. And unless it's swimwear, I would say no really short shorts either, and no rips/holes in the clothing that could potentially expose their privates…

Hannah: I think guys are as guilty as flirting of girls.... they do a lot of showing off... so far as what they wear... pants can easily be to big, or too tight ( as in bicycling shorts) and I really would rather they keep their shirts on.

Sarah: You want specifics? Well, guys can also have provocative body postures, guys can also flirt...I guess you could say the big guy thing is to show off to get all the girls attention, you know, to show that he is the strongest or whatever

I would say that guys' shirts should meet their pants at all times – same as for girls.

The saggy pants business is so bad, and tight shirts aren't that great either.

Andrew: So then, does immodesty have something to do with "showing off"....and if so, what is it that guys do to "show off" that "intentionally attracts the attention of the opposite gender in a way that would cause them to lust"?

Sarah: I think showing off is a good example of immodest behavior, well, girls are attracted to strong men, so I guess when a guy goes out of his way to seem strong in front of a girl then that would be immodest behavior indeed.

Hannah: In my experience, it's mostly body, brains, and personality… I don't really notice the showing off of stuff... except maybe having a 'hot' car, but so far as intentionally attracting, a lot of guys will be gentlemanly just as a chance to show off how strong they are or whatever, I've heard a lot of girls oohing and ahhing over how buff some guy is.

They’ll pay me outrageous compliments, or try to be really smart because they think I am. Usually that's accompanied by asking me out.

It's not so much what they do but what they say.

Andrew: So would you say that a lot of the "immodest" actions are efforts on the guy's part to make you prefer him over others --- so really anything that flows from that motivation is truly "immodest"?

Hannah: Yes... I guess you could say that... there are exceptions though…

Such as… you can't really call a guy who wants his wife to like him better than other guys immodest

So I would say it's only immodest if the guy hasn't the right .

___________________

I could probably write a wordy conclusion to this “interview”…but Hannah’s paraphrase of Paul is perfectly apt; she says it is really about how “guys should concern themselves not only with keeping their own thoughts pure but also the thoughts of their sisters in Christ.”

I completely agree. This is the true attitude of charity – not using our liberty as a cloak for selfishness (I Peter 2:16), not destroying others through our actions (Romans 14:13-15), and taking heed that our liberty does not become a stumblingblock to those that are weak (I Cor. 8:9). “Let every one of us please his [sister] for [her] good to edification” (Romans 15:2)…. “Let no man seek his own, but every man another’s wealth” (I Cor. 10:24).

Modesty (From a Man's Perspective)

Modest clothing is clothing that does not draw my eye (and thus my mind) to places (or thoughts) that stimulate lustful or envious desires. Immodest clothes are worn with the knowledge that they are a stumblingblock to those who look thereon.

Now, modest clothing does not preclude lust altogether -- I may choose to lust after a girl who is dressed in a burqa -- but the key is where the thought process begins; is it provoked by the article of clothing worn (or not worn, as the case may be)? This is immodesty. But if it begins as a choice by my own mind to lust, immodesty is not the issue of concern.

This principle of modesty does not apply to clothing only; body posture, word choice, and voice inflection can (and should) all be governed by the same principle.

The driving force behind true modesty is charity -- A desire to put the needs of others before one's self interest.